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  • Ask the Administrator: Is Working at a CC the Kiss of Death in Academia?

    By Dean Dad February 7, 2010 8:55 pm

    A longtime reader writes:

    I'm hoping you and your readers can offer some input. I'm on the cusp of receiving my PhD in English from an RI school, having been trained by a well-known and distinguished senior scholar in my field. I went on the academic job market last year and got a couple of nibbles from small regional schools, who were reluctant to make any offers to an ABD when they had equally-qualified applicants with PhDs in hand. I didn't lose hope, though, because my advisor has a 100% placement rating. As things unfolded, my husband and I actually accepted short-term faculty posts at an overseas branch of our school. We planned to get out of some debt, experience a new culture, finish up our dissertations, work on getting published, and then return to the job market after a year or two. The time has come for us to return now, if at all possible, and we have both applied to tenure-track jobs at four-year universities, SLACs, and several community colleges.

    In a bizarre turn of events, a tenure-track post has opened in the English department at a cc in my home state (40 minutes away from almost all of my family). My children are the only grandchildren on my side of the family, and they would love nothing more than to live near their grandparents. The cost of living is extremely affordable, and I would easily be happy living there. Would I be happy working there? I'm sure I would for a while...Forever? I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to give it my best shot. I am doing my best to take the advice of many who have commented on the plight of recent humanities PhDs and advised them to alter their idea of what kind of work constitutes academic success. I am willing to do this, and my general feeling is that, as long as I get to teach some literature courses (rather than all composition, all the time), I have some job security, and my family can put down some roots, I'd be pretty happy.

    My primary concern, however, is that *if* I decided in the future that cc work wasn't something I could be happy doing for the rest of my career, would a university still be willing to hire me? Or, would I be branded with a blazing CC on my chest and laughed at when I applied for a more research-oriented position? Is there an insurmountable stigma attached to cc work? Have you (or your readers) seen a humanities scholar move from the cc-level to a SLAC or regional state school?

    Never having hired at a university, I'll have to defer to my wise and worldly readers for feedback on what they've actually seen and done there. Having said that, though, my initial reaction here is similar to my initial reaction to a reader who was trying to find the perfect time to have a baby: you can control only what you can control.

    Yes, I've personally seen community college faculty hired away by four-year public colleges, and once by a second-tier public university. One of the most interesting writers of my generation, Jennifer Michael Hecht, taught full-time at Nassau Community College before moving to her perch at the New School, which ain't too shabby. (I don't know her, but I recommend her book The Happiness Myth to everybody within shouting distance.) Last year my college lost a particularly wonderful junior faculty member to a four-year state college, and it has happened several times over the last few years. I'd be surprised to see a direct hop from a cc to an Ivy, but hops from cc's to state colleges happen with some frequency.

    In each case, though, the candidate had something unusual. If you go simply as an accomplished teacher with a doctorate, you'll be one of hundreds. If you really want to make the leap, you'd have to do a kind of double duty while at the cc: do the cc job well, and still build a publication record (or something similar) that would make you desirable at the level you want. It can be done, but there are limits to how much most people will publish with a fifteen credit semester load. For all intents and purposes, you'd be doing at least a job and a half, if not two. Not impossible, but not for the faint of heart.

    In any event, though, I wouldn't rule out a job that offers the prospect of a sane and happy life for you and your family on the basis of a hypothetical attack of status anxiety five years from now at some hypothetical university. These things are notoriously hard to predict, and living according to other people's status anxiety is a recipe for misery. If the cc job offers the prospect of doing what you love to do, in a location that works well for your personal life, for a living wage with benefits and security, I wouldn't rule it out. I made a similar decision when I took my nifty academic pedigree to Proprietary U, where it was all teaching, all the time. It wasn't what I had envisioned when I signed up for grad school, but it paid the rent, made sense for my personal life, and eventually opened up an unexpected career path. I couldn't have predicted that at the time, but that's sort of the point.

    To my mind, the only convincing argument against applying for the cc job would be if you really don't want it. If the thought of teaching developmental writing, or lots of freshman comp, or fifteen credits per semester gives you chills, then don't do it. But if you can imagine enjoying it for a while, I wouldn't look at it as a life sentence. The world is a huge and unpredictable place.

    Wise and worldly readers, especially those who have hired at a university or who have made a similar leap -- what counsel would you offer? Is the c.v. stain indelible, or not?

    Good luck!

    Have a question? Ask the Administrator at deandad (at) gmail (dot) com.

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Comments on Ask the Administrator: Is Working at a CC the Kiss of Death in Academia?

  • CC teaching and future job prospects
  • Posted by anon. on February 8, 2010 at 5:15am EST
  • I got a CC job ABD and hopped to a top ten R1 after two years, just as I was finishing up my dissertation. So it can be done. Keep in mind, though, that to do this you must publish while at a CC, which normally has a five course per semester work load, and no teaching assistants to do the grading.

    I am tenured and full now, and look back at my CC years as a time when I really cut my teeth teaching. It was a positive experience overall, and gave me a set of teaching chops on the upper end of the new faculty cohort at my current school. Having been on quite a few search committees, I can honestly say that a few years at a CC shouldn't hurt your chances, as long as you are actively publishing and presenting at meetings.

  • Agreed with anon @5:15
  • Posted by anon on February 8, 2010 at 8:00am EST
  • Yes.

    However, its not because people will look down at you (most won't). Its because you will be working you behind off, doing things most Uni's don't quite care about:

    Expect to teach a 5/5 load. And depending on where you work, expect to teach in the summer (at many places its non-optional, and possibly even 6 classes).

    Expect to do a lot of service work, and sit on a good deal of committees.

    From my experience, and its just like Anon @ 5:15, I left abd and finished my dissertation at a CC, it can easily be done, if you want to transfer. However, just understand that you'll be working... a very full day. So you need to be ruthless with yourself, and you time. You must make time every day to finish your dissertation. AND on top of that, you must make time to write for conferences and publication.

    It can be done (you have two folks here cheering you on) but its far from easy, and I know many people that simply burn out on their dissertation (three friends from my class in graduate school) and never get a PhD... and remember on top of that you still need to do work that Uni's care about.

    Again, its not easy, but if you're will to work an 8-4ish, then grade (or be ruthless and grade at work), then "dissertate", then write for credentials... it can be done.

  • Shifting Focus
  • Posted by CCProf , Instructor, English at Midwest CC on February 8, 2010 at 8:30am EST
  • I can't speak to the marketability of a Ph.D. after it has been stained by the CC credential, though as somebody who has presented as a lowly R1 lecturer and as a CC professor at national conferences, I can say the R1 name behind one's name has a marketable heft that the CC name does not. I would warn though against entering the CC world with the hope of someday escaping it. I have found that instructors who do so find one of two things happening: either they recognize after years of CC service that priorities have changed and that research has become more of an intellectual pursuit rather than a professional lifeline or they become increasingly embittered by what might have been. After having been here for four years, I recognize that the CC world incredibly rich and invigorating for my research, but my research interests have become dominated by questions of pedagogy and access in my field rather than the questions that are frequently addressed in the major journals of my field. Because of time constraints, I will likely never publish as much or become as renowned as I had hoped when I envisioned myself becoming a R1 tenured professor, but my professional life is as full as it can be with important academic work that has fulfilled my ambitions in ways I never thought possible.

  • Sometimes
  • Posted by sibyl on February 8, 2010 at 9:15am EST
  • At my SLAC, I have observed my colleagues removing CC faculty from applicant pools without a by-your-leave. The stain is real.

    Of course, I have also seen them remove RI faculty just as abruptly. The reason for this, of course, is that it's a buyer's market. In theory, we know that CCs and RIs employ faculty who enjoy that mix of teaching, scholarship, and non-classroom teaching that goes on at SLACs. But those are the exceptions, not the rules, and we don't want you to try to convince us that you are different -- partly because we have scads of SLAC applicants to choose from, and partly because we aren't sure we'll recognize the truth of your argument when it comes along. When there are 200-300 names in the pool, you are glad for any reason to knock someone out.

    As others have said, if you want to move you have to be able to "write your way out." To be sure, you may not want to move. It's not impossible to make the move, but it is difficult. You'll need lots of help to make the time to write yourself out -- say, if you have family nearby who can take your children off your hands for some writing time. (Hint.)

    Good luck.

  • Another shift
  • Posted by dean on February 8, 2010 at 2:15pm EST
  • I am a dean at a CC, and I think it's commendable that you took an overseas position; what great experience you'll bring to the classroom. I read your message and came up with a few thoughts to share with you.

    First, most CCs have students who need instructors with patience, focus, and dedication to their success. They deserve that. I don't think you realize the environment at a CC, or you wouldn't be asking these questions. Your heart seems focused on a different kind of institution, even state universities sound as though you'd be settling.

    Go with your heart - you'll be miserable in a place that doesn't meet your needs and your family will suffer because of it! Be happy and go for what you really want.

  • Posted by Another Anon on February 9, 2010 at 4:00pm EST
  • What does SLAC stand for? I assume R1 stands for a research 1 university?

  • Posted by Jonathan Dresner on February 9, 2010 at 6:00pm EST
  • SLAC = Small Liberal Arts College

    All of my hiring experience is at schools that put a high premium on teaching (SLAC, state schools) and I've never seen CC experience discussed negatively. Not openly anyway, and there were a few candidates I can remember whose CC experience was a great strength: one of the concerns my committees always have had was about candidates ability to "hit the ground running" with a full load, and with CC veterans there was no question.

  • I love my CC job, but it is hard
  • Posted by Carolyn Barr , Asst. Professor of English at Broward College on February 11, 2010 at 10:15am EST
  • I am a tenured assistant prof of English at a large urban community college in S. Florida. I have no desire to get a Ph.D, so this will be my life. Been here 6 years and find the teaching very challenging. 5 courses, no teaching assistance and doing extra jobs on the side to pay off a few debts has me putting in a lot of time. On the other side, we have active teachign communities, a myriad of engaging opportunities for prof. development, and I get 1,500.oo a year in travel pay, and have be to CA, KY, and many other places for conferences on the college's dime, allowing me to meet wonderful colleagues, learn new pedagogies, and enjoy travel simultaneously.

    Our dept head is supportive, my colleagues are collegial and supportive and the pay is decent (could be better, of course). I like that the union is strong and active here.

    No pressure to publish works for me, although I am currently writing a textbook for remedial writers.

    If you are ok with a literature class about once or twice per year, CC is for you. Also, teaching in the summer is optional. I usually teach one six-week term and take 6 weeks off.

    Sabbatical is relatively easy to get and one can apply for that immediately after you get tenured, which is quite easy.

    Hope this info helps.